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Laminitis In Horses

by dlburns - June 3, 2015

Hi Steve,

I have used Si Miao San for laminitis in horses with usually good results, but sometimes cases don't respond. Just wondering if it's possible to get Dr Harman (or someone else who treats these cases a lot) to get involved in a discussion to tease out the nuances a little more?

Thank you! Dana Burns

by naturevet

June 8, 2015

I've passed a note onto Joyce Harman. Hopefully she'll weigh in

Steve

by harmany

June 8, 2015

Dana. many of these cases are not as clear as we might like, and i find i am doing a variety of things, depending on the responses and patterns present. Many of them have a lot of stagnation, which is where Move Freely comes in and works well, sometimes to get through a stuck time, other times it is the type of formula that is really the foundation.

I also use a lot of homeopathy, depending on the presenting signs, level of chronicity, and pain. Topical salves to move stagnation, and lots of sole support with styrofoam or various pads. in some cases, the obstacle to cure/palliation is the quality of the trim/shoeing and that can be difficult to deal with if the farrier is not on board.

I also use a lot of Omega 3's (flax, hemp, chia seeds), and insulin resistant type support (magnesium, chromium, vanadium, nitric oxide, OB formula from Advanced biological concepts). Co-enzyme Q10 is fabulous, especially when few NSAIDs are used. Also western herbal support: milk thistle is very useful for IR, fenugreek, etc.

hope this helps, let me know if you need more detail, Joyce Harman

by dlburns

June 13, 2015

Dear Joyce, (and thanks Steve)

Thanks tons for that! I would love even more detail. As much as possible!

The most pressing questions:

I have clients asking me constantly about different and new supplements. One case presented with hirsutism and hives, and diagnosed as Cushing's w/ elevated ACTH. He had both Damp Heat and Blood deficiency and was originally on SMS + DG. I moved him to Insulineze. He is also on milk thistle and chaste berry, and changed diet. Clinical signs are relatively good, but ACTH is still elevated. The owner is pestering me about a new Tumeric supplement. You mentioned other supplements and western herbs, but what to use when???? I have used various supplements but cannot always tell an improvement and I feel a bit out of control if just seeming to throw an endless array of things at them. And I don't quite feel confident to know how adding some of these single herbs affects the overall formula effect.

Which formulation/dose of CoQ 10 do you use?

Which salves do you use for laminitis. I know that Jin Tang has the Four Herbs (or something) salve. Any others?

I do also have a case of chronic w/ recent flare up laminitis on SMS + Move Freely. The pain presently goes up and down seemingly better and then worse. I have tried to play with the doses but am not seeming to make overall progress. How do you evaluate the stasis and make these decisions? It seems to me pulse and pain are the best indicators of stasis as I have not found tongue to be completely reliable. Again, so many horses do well on SMS + DG, and I can't tell why this particular horse is not since she has abundant Damp and Heat. This owner has a fantastic farrier so (unfortunately :) I can't blame it on that. Is also on banamine and good support boots and acupuncture.

Any tips on homeopathy?

Thank you so much!!! Every nugget is much appreciated!!

Best wishes, Dana

by naturevet

June 16, 2015

Hi Dana,

Hopefully Joyce will have some thoughts, but here is a pointer or two:

Si Miao San works in acute laminitis because it pulls blood away from the hoof, cooling it off and subduing the inflammation. If you use a Blood mover at the same time (like Move Freely), it will counteract the SMS, because it is moving blood peripherally toward the hoof. You may get further by using these two formulas one at a time.

A more anti-inflammatory Blood moving approach to laminitis can be achieved by mixing Yin Chen Hao into Modified Xue Fu Zhu Yu Tang, about 15g per 100g.

Regarding the Cushings, you could try Insulineze together with SMS. Another pointer to keep in mind is that, when you have partial but not complete results, try just raising the dose of what you're using.

As for the Turmeric, I don't see a problem in using it, and it it's very important to the owner, then I guess maybe go with it. But I also don't think it's likely to help too much.

Hope that helps,

Steve

by dlburns

June 17, 2015

Thanks Steve, that is very helpful. Just a few more!

1) What about adding San Leng, E Zhu, and Yin Chen Hao to STZYT (or Move Freely for that matter)? I have also wondered about this combination for conditions like Osteosarcoma.

2) I have used Insulineze together w/ SMS in the particular horse in question and elevated the doses as well as played with the relative concentrations to no really discernible result, as clinical signs are overall pretty good. Any tips? Would be great to have some sort of guideline, maybe even w/ lab values.

3) If Blood movers + SMS are counter productive, how does it work with Dang Gui added to SMS as DG is also a Blood mover (and sometimes described as a mini XFZYT)? I have found this combination really successful in many horses.

Thanks again! Dana

by naturevet

June 17, 2015

E Zhu and Yin Chen Hao are anti-inflammatory, so they may punch up STZYT a bit. Cynthia Lankenau has found our Xian Fang Huo Ming Yin curative in osteosarcoma and very helpful in old arthritic joints that have multiple injections, etc.

Regarding SMS and Insulineze, they work much better if the diet has been shifted to roughage and away from cookies, pellets, concentrates and other rich foods

Dang Gui is a Blood tonic and mover, and will help especially those horses whose Blood has been damaged by Damp Heat. But STZYT and Move Freely contain potent aromatics which make them relatively more dispersing, and thus potentially more aggravating than the addition of Dang Gui. For horses that need some Damp Heat and Phlegm addressed, but for which you need Blood movers as well, consider Xian Fang Huo Ming Yin

Steve

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