Question Details
Symmetrical Lupoid Onchodystrophy In A Dog
by Dreudog - February 13, 2018    View Case Report
Hi Steve and group,

This dog is a 5 year old Bearded Collie. As a younger dog, he'd had a mild itch that worsened soon after a Rabies vaccine, also some bouts of colitis alt. w/ small bowel type soft stools. I'm not finding him in my patient list, but you had advised ZBDHW, after CHJLGMLT caused some nausea. Xiao yao san also caused him nausea. The ZB seemed to help w/ pruritus (fall of 2013) and PM insomnia, but his itch ramped up during the late summer/fall of that year. We then tried Qing ling tang (thinking he was yin deficient, but the ZB was not helping enuf and QYT seemed to fit his season of worsening) Itch seemed to improve, but then worsened again at the onset of winter, still taking QYT.

At my suggestion, he saw a local homeopath for a couple years, w/ mixed results. Some itch and some softer stools persisted thru a series of remedies.

I saw him back in April of 2016 for issues w/ his nails - they were typical SLO nails (the owner noticed some abnormal nails in January)- splitting, crumbly, some black - painful and falling off. The owners didn't want to remove a toe for the biopsy, so he has a tentative dx. At that April exam, his tongue was red and sl. wet, nails all very abnormal as above, painful, pulse middle - deep, not esp. fast, thinner w/ some tone. He is friendly, active, always slim to good weight . He has been on raw diet since puppyhood. He'd had fungal and bacterial cultures (negative) done. I sent him w/ Bu zhong yi qi tang.

Over time, his nails improved ~ 90%, so he has remained on the formula @ lower doses, along w/ high dose fish oil, liver support. His pulse remained thinner , so we added dang gui and then chai hu per your recc. Both single herbs helped some w/ his tendencies towards a thinner pulse, and his nails look great!

What I'm not affecting herbally is his itch; January of 2017 he was itchy enuf to need Apoquel off and on, better by May, then worse again in fall. I tried Xue fu zhu yu tang, and his behaviors changed - lunging at bikers on walks, generally obnoxious - normal off herb.

At last exam Nov. 2017, he had a thunder pulse, normal rate. Sl. yeasty ears, mod. seborrhea (BZYQT dampening?). A couple nails had small cracks, otherwise good.
Sl. underweight. Mild erythema and itch then.

Wondering about herbs for this itch - should I be looking at the triple burner herbs again? Other thoughts?

Thanks !!!

Cathy L.
by naturevet
February 15, 2018
Hi Cathy,

I don't know what a thunder pulse is - may be you could elaborate? Or did you experience an auto-correction and were going for thinner...?

The behaviour of this dog makes me wonder if he has a secondary infection layered on his allergy. Not huge, but enough to flare up as circulation internalizes for the winter; and to spontaneously abate as it externalizes for the summer. Bathing, some cephalexin, or an immune stimulant of some sort may help.

April May pathology is often tied to Blood deficiency, but with the adverse response to XFZYT, we may not want to go there right now. So that rules out Gui Pi Tang. You could potentially try Yu Ping Feng San. The Astragalus in there is warming, though, so if the skin is very hot, I wouldn't try it. Other immune stimulants, such as Siberian Ginseng, may be better tolerated, or perhaps even Ginseng.

The safest strategy might be some baths with diluted tea tree oil. If he improves right after, you'll know there is an overgrowth of some type. So then maybe a smear to separate bacteria from yeast, and then the appropriate drug, if none of the herbal options appeal.

Hope that helps,

by Dreudog
February 16, 2018
Yes, "thinner" !! Need to read my email thru before it gets posted. :)

I don't appreciate any skin lesions on this dog, but will check closely on his upcoming exam and have her try to essential oil bath. Will study the YPFS also; his skin has a mild erythema.


by naturevet
February 16, 2018
You could always try it at a low dose first, and give it a couple of weeks

by DarrylPruts
February 18, 2018
Why this is best site? -
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