Question Details
Hemangiosarcoma
by Debbie - April 13, 2009
Jasper 7 yr MN Siberian Huskey
Splenectomy Jan 09 dx hemangiosarcoma
Had been very healthy dog and splenic tumor found on annual exam by RV. Owner had reported episodic severe abdominal pain for 6-8 months preceding but dx work-ups were normal. Initially started on Yunnan Paiyao and Xue Fu Zhu Yu Tang.
At 2 wk recheck:
Blood parameters back to normal but Jasper had recurrence of acute abdominal pain.
Pulse: deep and difficult to palpate;
Tongue: variable but predominately lavendar-purplish with thin white coat
Active Pts: BL18; BL16; LI10; LV8
Excellent pulse response to APtx
Changed herb to Dang Gui Shao Yao San and kept on Yunnan Paiyao
1 month later:
No further episodes of acute abdomen; Blood parameters remain normal. No significant change in Tongue/Pulse/Active pts. Reccd continuation of current therapy.
Question?
Owner has been doing a lot of research and wants to add the following supplements but I don't know if they would be beneficial or what dose to suggest? Any other suggestions?
-Vitamin C
-Tumeric
-Glutasyn
-CoQ10
Thanks- glad to see this forum up and running! Debbie
Replies
by naturevet
April 14, 2008
Hi Debbie,

Sorry about the delayed reply here. Some technical issues.

The abdominal pain component makes me think that Ge Xia Zhu Yu Tang would be a consideration. It's a blood mover specific for the abdomen, and is especially indicated for pain. It appears to have been effective in some hemangiosarcoma cases, although continuing Yunnan Bai Yao is advised. The supplements you mentioned are also fine. I would add in Bilberry extract, which has been shown to inhibit growth of human endothelial cell tumor lines. It's also a blood mover, as is GXZYT. The latter moves blood outward from the abdomen to the periphery, helping to relieve tendencies to abdominal vascular congestion and maximize oxygenation and surveillance of the abdomen.

You can continue the DGSYS if you like. If the pulse gets better on the GXZYT, that will confirm we're on the right track.

Good luck with this case!

Steve
by Debbie
April 16, 2009
Thanks! I saw Jasper again today and he is doing fantastic ... though starting to put on extra weight :-( (on Orijen)

His pulse is starting to normalize ... more moderate than deep and easier to find though still smallish and soft. I'm not sure how accurate the tongue assessment is due to Jasper's excitement and hyperactivity during appt. The only active points were BL26 and GB24. Will order in some GXZYT to introduce next visit.

Client has been told by RV not to expect dog to live into May so owner anxious to do everything possible to prevent the fulfillment of this prophecy.
What dose of Bilberry, VitC and Tumeric would you reccd for this 25 kg dog?

Debbie

by naturevet
April 16, 2009
Excellent! Glad to hear he's doing well. Gall Bladder 24 as an active point is interesting. That might suggest a role for Xiao Chai Hu Tang as well. In addition, it can help 'activate' or potentiate the action of Ge Xia Zhu Yu Tang. So I'd roll it in there. Sorry, one more thing to buy!

For Bilberry, I'd go with 3 ml BID to start with anyway. No side effects anticipated. Some turmeric is already in GXZYT, but I'd throw a tablespoon in his food daily (or 1 tsp BID) if he'll accept it. Vitamin C may not do much for us unless given in massive doses IV. But a couple of hundred mgs daily can't hurt.

Good luck with this case. I know you can beat May!

Steve
by Debbie
September 10, 2009
Well, we beat May but Jasper is getting into problems again. He did well on GXZYT and Yunnan Baiyao with biweekly acupuncture treatments up until about 1 month ago. He started having episodes of pain - first neck then stifle now forearm (Hypertrophic osteopathy??) He is currently on GXZYT and Yunnan Baiyao. We tried to introduce XCHT but ended up discontinuing due to the development of inappetance. (Even now that the owner now gives herbs separate from his food). It is complicated by the fact that his regular veterinarian also started him on a combination of NSAIDs and analgesics simultaneously. His PCV had been stable but dropped to 21 as of yesterday so we doubled up his Yunnan Baiyao again. Radiographs of his limbs show NSF but and abdominal U/S showed 3 small tumors, all around 2 cm in diameter. We haven't done chest rads but would assume we have mets there as well. A single fecal hematest suggests the bleeding was not from GI tract (or NSAID related)... though he has been taken off Metacam for the time being and is getting Tramadol/Gabapentin. The tongue is pale again and variably stagnant looking, the pulse thin wiry and deep but responsive to dry needle treatment of BL18; BL21; SP6; and a variety of GB points (21; 25; 30). My gut tells me to try the XCHT again but the owners will give up if he stops eating. I'm also thinking about starting him on prednisone if only temporarily to improve his appetite.

Any thoughts?
Debbie

PS hopefully you can remove the blank post I submitted just before this one... thought I was doing a search and couldn't find away to delete it once it was posted.
by Debbie
September 22, 2009
Still interested in where I might have gone with this patient despite the fact that Jasper was euthanized the day following my previous post due to pain affecting multiple limbs and that wasn't being controlled with medications (including steriods).
by naturevet
September 22, 2009
Hi Debbie,

It's all speculative at this point. From a TCM perspective, certainly a GB and TB problem (treated by XCHT) can produce that pain pattern and would be appropriate to the diagnosis. If animals don't tolerate the herbs, I always have owners start again, but with a ridiculously small dose, and work their way up.

Wind invasions can also cause shifting pains in multiple locations.

Lastly, from a western perspective, if anemia is bad enough, I believe it can produce muscle aches and pains. If so, then making sure something is on board that stimulates the bone marrow (Dang Gui, Rehmannia) might work within the space of a couple of weeks. Also, some sort of disc problem, too, although you'd expect the pain to be more localized, but the ataxia to be widespread, if the neck was involved.

Regardless of the above, you got five months out of Jasper. I think you were doing very well, and the owners are probably very grateful for the added months you provided. You certainly exceeded what would have been expected with conventional therapy. It always amazes me that this is the rule rather than the exception, yet alternative therapies for cancer remain under-appreciated and researched.

Steve

by Debbie
September 22, 2009
Thanks Steve,

The original diagnosis and splenectomy was performed in January 09 so we actually got 9 months and yes, the owners were extremely grateful for the additional time, in which he was virtually asymptomatic, they had with Jasper.

On a side note, I'm finding that when I treat cancers with herbals (with or without adjunctive chemotherapy) that I get really good QOL comments from clients but very rapid and dramatic decline in the end. Is this common?
by naturevet
September 22, 2009
Yes, many of us have noticed this. Instead of animals struggling for several weeks and then passing away, they tend to crash quickly, which can be traumatic if owners are not warned. Given the extended lifespans we're seeing, I view this as a positive. Basically, instead of the animals planing downwards, they stay at a high level of function for an unusually long time and then drop off a cliff at the end, like their batteries just give out.

S
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